Highlights from Jonathan Otto's interview with Dr. Daniel Nuzum, for the Depression & Anxiety Series. He speaks about the ideal diet for depression and anxiety - and the danger of consuming too much protein.
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: My ideal diet would be variation, variation, but it has to be predominantly plant-based, okay? Even if you do eat meat or other things, most of your diet, 60% or more, has to be plant-based, okay, otherwise you're not going to be well.
Jonathan Otto: 00:52:17 Yeah, and if somebody's eating then the other 40% straight animal products, meat, cheese, dairy-
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:52:24 Here's the thing-
Jonathan Otto: 00:52:25 ... they're not going to be well.
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:52:25 They're not going to be well. No, here's, there's one thing I wanted to explain, for sure. Excess protein that isn't completely metabolized ends up as sugar. Okay? That protein that doesn't get metabolized in your system ends up either as purines, okay, which is unmetabolized protein, so it causes gout and uric acid problems and things like that, and then another part of the faulty protein metabolism will end up as sugar. Even though someone might be eating a lot of protein, big protein diet, if they're eating too much protein, more than their body can break down, some of that protein gets converted into sugar. It doesn't put you any farther ahead, is my point, okay?
Jonathan Otto: 00:53:23 Is it true that too many people are too excessive in protein, and then they're eating too little complex carbs?
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:53:33 Too little complex carbs, there's, yes, there are plant subsugars that are called polysaccharides, and they're shorter-chained complex carbohydrates, so you get a basic sugar, table sugar would be like two glucose molecules, okay, if you think of them as a chain, it would be a chain with two links in it, okay? A subsugar might have 20 links. A polysaccharide might come out about 40, 50 links. You get a complex carbohydrate might be out a hundred links, okay? Dietary fiber's like 300 links, okay, the really, really long chain, okay, and the reason dietary fiber is something that doesn't break down, it's not that it doesn't fully break down. We have a digestive, it's not in our digestive track long enough for it to get digested, okay? That's what dietary fiber is, okay? All of them are sugars, okay, they're all sugar molecules linked together, correct? When we're eating, say if we're heavy meat eaters, we're eating lots of fat, lots of protein, okay, all from animal products, if we're doing that and we have a leaky gut, what our body gets used to digesting is flesh. Okay, now, metabolically, do you see anything wrong with that?
Jonathan Otto: 00:55:28 Oh, yeah.
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:55:30 Okay. If you're training your body to digest flesh, what is it your body's made of again?
Jonathan Otto: 00:55:37 Flesh.
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:55:38 Flesh, right, so an excessively high-protein diet, in my opinion, can feed in to our immune disorders, can feed in to all kinds of different metabolic disorders. Now, there's more protein in broccoli than there is in beef, okay? People don't know that, but if you could ... The problem with broccoli is that it smells funny, and if you make a broccoli protein powder, it smells funny, so it's kind of difficult to get that into a form that's marketable. You don't see it on the market, that's why.
Jonathan Otto: 00:56:26 I get it, I get it. They can't, what, charge as much for it?
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:56:32 Well, yeah, because it's-
Jonathan Otto: 00:56:32 Here buy this, it's like two bucks.
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:56:35 Right, two bucks. It just doesn't smell great.
Jonathan Otto: 00:56:40 I didn't notice that. Does it smell bad, broccoli?
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:56:42 It does, well, broccoli, if you get a good broccoli protein powder, it smells like old broccoli.
Jonathan Otto: 00:56:53 You don't need the protein powder, you just need the broccoli, right?
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:56:55 You need the broccoli, and eating more broccoli, there's been all kinds of studies done on prison populations where, when they switch the prisoners to a plant-based diet, virtually all crime within the prison goes away. It's not ... I'm not 100% plant- based, personally, I have a very varied diet, we eat lots of different things, but what I have seen is your plant-based diets are almost the best anti-inflammatory diets you could ever get on, okay? They are phenomenal. One thing that is extremely important to understand about consuming plants, especially raw, raw fruits and vegetables, is that when you're consuming raw fruits and vegetables, your body incorporates the mitochondria that are in those fruits and vegetables, okay?
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:58:12 All, everything alive on our planet has mitochondria within its cells. Every living organism on the planet, okay. The grass in your front lawn, okay, the ants under the grass, the maple tree out back, the pine tree out back, or whatever, the dog, the fish in the fishbowl, you, your family, okay, all of us have mitochondria in our cells. Humans have anywhere from 1,000 to 2,000 mitochondria per cell, okay, so all cells have mitochondria, okay, and it's mitochondria that enable our cells, that produces the energy for our cells to do our work, for whatever job they have, right? What's interesting is that mitochondria we discovered today that mitochondria are microbes, okay? They're bugs, okay, and these bugs generate the energy that our cells need in order to survive and to do their job, and the more of these "bugs" that we have in our cells, the more active our cells become, okay?
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 00:59:41 You take your most metabolically active tissues in your body, your heart, your brain, and your liver, okay, those cells many times will have up to 2,000 mitochondria per cell, okay? That's 2,000 bugs in each one of those cells. It's amazing. When we consume raw fruits and vegetables, the mitochondria from those fruits and vegetables get incorporated into our cells, okay? If you have a chronic illness, one of the most common symptoms of any chronic illness, and if you look at chronic illness, every chronic illness, you look at them, they'll always have one word in the list of symptoms, fatigue. Fatigue is always a symptom of chronic illness, okay, always. What is fatigue? Lack of energy. What is fatigue? Fatigue's lack of energy. Well, from a biological standpoint, where does energy come from? In our body, and in anything alive on the planet, energy comes from mitochondria. Mitochondria produce the energy for our cells.
Dr. Daniel Nuzum: 01:01:02 If you have fatigue, you have a deficiency in energy, what do you have a deficiency in? You have a deficiency in activity, at least, of your mitochondria, and in my many cases you will also have a deficiency of mitochondria. When you eat animal foods, if they're not live, you're not going to get any mitochondria out of that. Okay? If you want to replenish your mitochondria, you can only do that through fresh fruits and vegetables. This is the power behind juicing. When people juice, they're massively, they're extracting, you can drink the juice of hundreds of times more fruits and vegetables than you could ever eat, correct? By extracting the juice from these fruits and vegetables you, in the juice, you're getting the mitochondria from those fruits and vegetables, and when you consume this, what happens? Those mitochondria are getting incorporated into your cells, you add more mitochondria to your system, which does what? Adds more power generators to your body, then you get more energy. Okay? You can't get that from animal-based foods.
Jonathan Otto: 01:02:28 There's no fiber, as well.